+- Forums (https://www.studioscalemodelers.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Index (https://www.studioscalemodelers.com/forums/forum-623.html)
+--- Forum: Studio Scale Replica Builds In Progress (https://www.studioscalemodelers.com/forums/forum-678.html)
+--- Thread: Jases Battlestar Galactica (/thread-510.html)
Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-16-2010
Well it starts today. After recieving a long awaited package marking the start of what will be a long & arduous gourney into the realm of dreams & nightmares. I am very happy to start this thread. I am fortunate enough to be working with a good new friend I have made who also will be building one of his childhood dreams. This project is dedicated to my late Grandmother who enjoyed watching this with me as a child.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - kbilly - 02-16-2010
I have to admire you galactica builders.... that just looks like one real tough build. I look forward to seeing this come together.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Wombat - 02-16-2010
^
I think it look's like a tough one also,good luck with it Mate!! LOL.
But it's good to see it's there finally,it's gonna be great seeing this come together over time,a lot of time i'd be thinking.But at the end you'll have just the sickest model to proudly display and blow peoples minds.These thing's are massive mate,and we need to get you down here to Adelaide so you can check out Mike's for yourself.You really can't capture the size of these things in pictures,it's something you have ta checkout for yourself,trust me.Honestly,it's just an incredible thing to see with your own eyes,and soon you'll be seeing one start to take shape up there.
Will be an interesting build to say the least!
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - bwayne64 - 02-17-2010
Awesome Jase,
I'm so jealous,
All I have is a long piece of tubing that still has to be cut, LOL. Another ship of the fleet begins. We'll all have to find little champaign bottles to smash on the bows. Can't wait to see another one take shape. Cheers,Joe
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - dbhs - 02-17-2010
WOW -
Nothing like a quick, simple build to take your mind off of the other big projects that just drag on and on...........LOL
I'm looking forward to seeing this go together. I haven't seen a G thread from day one so this will be fun !!!
-Doug
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-17-2010
Thanks guys. Ism really lucky to be working with Phil. We know how obsessive he is about perfection. This will be fun & certainly no 'quick' build. Im having as much trouble just finding someone to weld up my armature with the right diameter pipe as what poor Phil has gone through in the last 5 months just waiting for his. I sincerely hope the shops fixed Phils armature as he's had a couple of final issues to take care of.... Regardless of what ever problem arrises these replicas are going to get built.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-23-2010
Just quick update. Test fitting the Engine box pieces. Picking up some 2" pipe tomorrow. The alluminnium pipe is scrap from the engineers. Won't be on an armature until probably April as it 'has' to built from Stailess Steel. Thats the only 50.8mm pipe available. Just ask Phil & he'll tell ya's about his nightmare.... Have started on molding & casting the Rocco's for the Engine section which there are quite a few of
This is going to be fun.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-24-2010
Picked up a nice piece of stainless steel 2" pipe this afternoon & found the guy who's going to fabricate my armature for less than 1/2 the price I originally got quoted by another company. I am stoked
Also grabbed a tube of Weldon #16 so things are coming together, literally.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Richard_2001 - 02-24-2010
Jason,
Looking very good! You are making excellent progress!
Richard
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Wombat - 02-24-2010
Excellent stuff there Jase,good to see ya got the pipe and glue,you'll be having this section together in no time mate.Then we gotta scratch up the slopped front,waist and the inserts for the engines.Bit of scribing then the greeblie fun can begin.I think theres the rest of this year gone already!!
I guess this is the first time you are able to get a sense of how big this thing is.You'll be impressed i can tell ya!!
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-25-2010
Thanks guys. Glad I was able to get the glue from my plastics supplier & the pipe was bought from whats turned out to be a lucky score. The bloke I got it from was real interested in what I was doing. Hope that brings the price down of the armature Im waiting a quote on! Unfortunately for some reason youve been put in a spot where youve had to make alterations to your acrylics which has just made things a bit harder for you mate. You smart & work through it thankfully. This build has been a bit of a sour start Phil but things will get brighter soon. I will have this secured in the next day or so & hopefully have the side pieces joined. i will then start trying to get the Engine boxes sorted. That will be fun, I hope....
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - erospawn - 02-26-2010
Where did the acylic cutouts come from? How much were they?
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-27-2010
Starting getting the parts ready for casting. My compadre, well one of many has sent me a huge box of Galactica goodies! This is also a huge amount of work though am 'extremely' greatful & thankful of Phil contributing his parts for molding. So it begins. Everypart has its special need for molding & some will need to be done again if not done right the first time. The Centurion grill is a challenge but this way will give us an exact copy. I hope. The others are the Roco parts I didn't cast the first time. The little piece for the rear of the Bergepanzer is my greatest concern & id molding the little piece to add on my existiting casts doesn't work I'll have to mold the whole thing again. it may & may not work. Its a very thin pieces so its 80/20
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - dbhs - 02-27-2010
Great work, Jase.
I think we are seeing a revolution in scratch built studio models in the making.
I have a magazine article showing the use of legos to make the box around the rubber when molding. They can be reused over and over. Not sure if this would work if you're putting them in pressure/vacuum pots but may be something to consider if the stryene use gets expensive or troublesome. I'll get the article scanned next week and post it.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-27-2010
Hell your right on my a%#! I only just finished typeing that. I saw Lee Fury useing that techniqe years ago. unforyunately I don't have a heap of Lego. My sons not quite into that. yet. Im just useing styren scraps which are reusable aswell. I think the revolution has begun & its the sharing & openess revolution, I hope.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-27-2010
Back again. Parts boxed & rubber poured
these will be ready to crack open in the morning 
I guess it will be casting day to see if we got 100% goers or which ones need to be done differently. Betch ya cant waite 
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-28-2010
Ok team back again. Didn't get much sleep last night. Always happens when I got stuff in rubber, Get to anxious to see if I had success or failure. Lucky Ive had excellent success rates from the start. So anyway all looks pretty good. It will look like a pile of pink rubber to most but I can see these have worked quite well. The tracks however are a worry. They will work but will require attention when pouring resin. Lucky my pressure chamber pushes the resin into all the cracks & crevices. Its getting the parts out intact I have concerns about. The Centurion mold is sweet. It will yield perfect copies
I will do some casting today. Right now I just got home from work, in the rain again, no sleep & am a little bushed. So off to have a shower & just a lil rest. Will be back with the goods later.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-28-2010
Check these lil buggers out from my first casts. Stoked they all came out clear as & crisp as
Now there is a bit of flash to remove but thats just the first casts. I made sure there was extra resin in em to be safe. I'll just reduce the pour which will reduce & maybe erase the flash so there will be minimal sanding. Pretty happy with myself right now 
The Centurion deck is perfectamundo other than two bubbles in the support brackets that don't get used so Oh this is so much fun. Special note# I remebered to wear my safety gear as resin is a harmful chemical. Ok these puppies are good so just got to make like 24 copies for me & Phil & we're good 
Sorry if I come across as a dick Im just excited.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - 427 Cobra - 02-28-2010
OK. I just deleted my last response to your last post. I see that some of the mould has come off with the treads. This is because the master parts weren't glued all the way down to the plastic placards under them,and this left undercuts. One of these also has too much glue on it causing it squeeze out. The moulds will need to be remade. Once you have a tear,or a sheared off part - all subsequent parts will have the same defects until fixed,and a new mould made. I'll glue all the placards to my master parts,so that you won't have this problem casting them. This will make it go faster,and it'll be easier for you overall.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Wombat - 02-28-2010
Excellent bloody work there Jase!!
It's a start to a mammoth job but a start none the less mate.Good to hear and see you had good results there with all the small part's.It's great to see even the thinest of parts has worked out also for us both.
The only part which may need to be done again is the crane base.Those pieces that can be removed shouldn't be moulded to the base.It might be something that can still be removed from the casting with ease though so i'll just suss it out when i see em.Theres only the two used on the G as far as i know also so it's probably not worth remoulding if we can work the castings to look right.
Good stuff mate!!
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-28-2010
Cris what are you on about? All the parts come out fine. Yes some have ripped off some rubber but thats stuff thats at the back & I probably tried cutting it off anyway... The only thing that may or will need to happen to these parts is some sanding to take the backs off. I purposely only loosely glue them down so their easier to slice off or sand back as created gaps. Thats alot easier & cheaper than buying all the kits. I wouldn't have been happy with myself if there were any major hickups. I'll clean the pieces up & show you.
Phil that part I just noticed mate so I pulled the hydrolic things off no problem. The little thingy for the big rear of the big tank & half a crane didn't form properly on the second run but I think thats because I pulled it too early.
Back to work now.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - dbhs - 02-28-2010
Nice work, Jase. That looks like fun.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - 427 Cobra - 02-28-2010
There are pink pieces of the mould stuck to the tread parts. Your other tread parts will have more resin on them in the same places the mould was torn away from when you cast new ones. I understand you're making gang moulds for these,so that you can multiply the number of kits for this Galactica build because you need them. This extra resin will make cleaning these parts up take more effort. It's OK if you don't want the original kit parts permanently glued to the placards you made,just make sure that when they are glued together - that there are no undercuts between the master parts,and the placards (styrene sheet pieces you've glued them to) to damage the mould.
I'll just make small thin placards to mould my parts with. I'll show you what I mean when I get to that part of my X-wing build. All the small parts will have to be cast this way. The larger parts like the wings shouldn't need placards glued to them,but I think I'll do this anyway,just to ensure proper casting all the way around.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - erospawn - 02-28-2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv08XwZ1HfY
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-28-2010
Ha thats f&^%$n funny mate & one day we gonna cut his head off & see how he likes it. Like many others I get so angry when I see that guy. As funny as those clips are he is evil & we will get him eventually. Respect to all our Australian troops behind enemy lines.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 02-28-2010
Cris I agree with you on the thinner placards/backings. The tracks are hollow through the middle making them difficult to mold & cast. Once I clean them up on the belt sander & all the backing is gone they will be fine. these parts are also barely seen though that is no excuse. Thanks for the feedback. You do know what your saying.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - 427 Cobra - 03-01-2010
(02-28-2010, 06:47 PM)jasonwright.1972 Wrote: The tracks are hollow through the middle making them difficult to mold & cast.
Damn! I didn't know that! I wondered why you'd cast these that way,when you've been so perfect at casting everything else. I feel stupid now!
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 03-01-2010
Cris its alright mate & I was definately a little short & grumpy yesterday through lack of sleep. Ive made a good start on these parts & will today hopefully have all of Phils Roco part set cast up & then do my own. Its aloooot of work so lucky I enjoy it.
Heres the Roc #HO257 Bergepazer. Luckily I was able to mold the little piece that goes on the back seperate which I unknowingly left off when molding the tank hull. I won't have to do another whole mold & its probably best it was done like this anyway. I also removed the back plate as I molded the hull with it on. It cuts away easily when pulled out the mold. There are 2 of these that go on the front section as is. The other 10 have the front cut level with the bottom hull edge.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Richard_2001 - 03-01-2010
Jason,
Looking very good there!
Richard
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 03-01-2010
Thanks Richard I appreciate your words. Ok big day in the office (garage) again. Its been raining & really kooled things down. This isn't good for casting. So I didn't get much of that done today. I spent some time cleaning up some pieces & redoing a ccouple of my first molds. Im reasonably happy with the results so far though there are some pieces that can be improved on. When doing a single part open cast in the pot I can pretty much assured of 100% strike rate. Unfortunately with the 2 part sandwhich style mpld casts Im having some failures. I hate failures............
So some parts Ive opted for solid casts. They produce more weight but save resin & time through non failure cause theres less wastage & Im not chasing my tail.
Roco 215 hollow for the top section.
[attachment=3786]
Roco 215 tracks. The first picture is the cast. the second is the cast trimmed & sanded some. The third is the cast sanded to how the part is. The good news is this rsin sands very easily & the bottom result can be achieved quite quickly.
[attachment=3787]
Roco 257 plows. The end bits are removed from these parts which I just realised when checking the 'Pappas Picture'.
Been stressing me as the end pieces weren't alway coming out perfect. Not a problem as these are cut.
[attachment=3788]
Can see where Ive trimmed just in the inside so the part looks curved whilst its actually flat & solid.
[attachment=3789]
Can see here what I was saying in the before picture.
[attachment=3790]
A complete Roco 215 set of 24 tracks ready for someone who's going to finish the job. Will give him something to do while he waits for the other parts!
[attachment=3791]
Another complete set of Roco 215's in solid form. These are nice & sharp. Obviously a bit heavier than hollow but shouldn't be a problem.
[attachment=3792][attachment=3793]
The Roco 257 cranes in halves. Ive had to redo these again as the crane piece with the 2 holes lost a thingy on the mold & now only casts one hole instead of 2. Damnit!
[attachment=3794]
The Roco 257 crane base with the hydrolics pulled off. this too has been remolded.
[attachment=3795]
The Roco 257's are good except for some small defects on the lower side & the rear bucket on the top. damnit!!! I have remolded this also.
[attachment=3796]
The small piece that goes on the rear deck worked out good.
[attachment=3797]
The Roco 254's I have cast solid also. They are nice & sharp & look almost edible. These get cut in half & go in the engine trench.
[attachment=3798]
The Roco 215 hatch that is used a few times in the engine trench.
[attachment=3799]
Roco 211 Ive also had some problems with. Now I know how this is on the model I have made alterations & remolded. It also has the turret & water can pieces that are required for this part. The part on the right end is hollow cast & good except there is some marks on the hull walls from the mold... So remolded with alterations it was.
So thats where Im at for now. The Centurion Grill is perfect thank the rsin gods. I hope to be done with Roco's soon as I counted there are 188 pieces required just from the Rocos........................................................
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Richard_2001 - 03-01-2010
Jason,
Nice progress!! All the changes look good. Just one thing: the blade attachment arms on the 257 blades need to be removed - minor quibble and easy to do with nail clippers.
Too bad about the mold damage, but even with all the bad casts and remolding you are still probably cheaper than getting all the Roco's needed for even one Battlestar the 215 is almost nonexistent anymore.
even if you manage to get the Roco's for about 15 US Dollars apiece (you need 71 of them) it come to 1100 US Dollars, you can buy a lot of casting supplies for that.
Richard
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Wombat - 03-01-2010
Wow Jase,my god,you have been busy there indeed.Thats incredible just the amount of Roco bodys and parts are used on this build alone.Most of the stuff looks really good,most are actually bloody outstanding there really.It's like a candy shop for Galactica builders,i'll take a bag of mixed Roco's off ya for sure!! LOL
There sure must be some work required not to mention expense in creating so many of these damn thing's?Even if you say it's saving resin because of the less faliures doing them as solid casting's,you should and will get the knack of getting a good sucsess rate with practice doing the two part mould.That way you save on the resin also in the end.I have no problem using solid castings on my build mate,in the end they are gonna look the same.I might dremel some of the weight outa em,but i wouldn't be going crazy getting em super thin or nothing.
Anyway,congrats man on the fine effort there,look forward to getting the build at the stage where i can start sticken em on.
BTW,again like i mentioned ta ya before,give em a break for a day or two and get that engine section of yours put together mate!!
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - dbhs - 03-03-2010
(03-01-2010, 07:28 PM)jasonwright.1972 Wrote: The Centurion Grill is perfect thank the rsin gods.
Music to my ears.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 03-03-2010
Doug package sent mate. Ok Im hearin you Phil. Your probably right, well you are. I just have to say that i figured out my issue which was relatively simple. I just need to add some extra air vents to allow the bubbles thats been getting trapped escape. Problem solved. I'll try it this afternoon, oh I mean on the weekend..... Just got a call from the Fabricator & my armature is ready to pick up. Woot woot! Thats good news. This guy also made it 1/2 the price I got quoted elsewhere. Lets just hope its right. im pretty confident it will be right as they have called me several times to check & varify measurements. Now I need somewhere to put it! My garage looks like a bombs gone off in it. Anyway pictures later of my Galactica armature. Damn, now I wish I had the engine box to slide on for ya's!
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Wombat - 03-03-2010
^
[cough]Build the fuckin thing will ya![/cough]
Yeah i'm talking about the engine section,do it Jase.Everything else can wait mate,get it done!!
Thats bloody great news on your armature,i'm sure yours will be fine and at least one of us will have something ta show between us.Look forward to seeing and hearing how it worked out for you there.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 03-03-2010
Well I picked the lil sucker up this afternoon. I wasn't sure what to expect even though I new what I should get & I gotta say this guy did an outstanding job! Checked the measurements & all is good. The guy even pulled out some stuff he had to make up a stand from an industrial fan they mounted to the wall & still had the stand. i'll be picking up a stand for this sucker in the next few weeks so thats really kool aswell. Has been a good day & Im just sorry my mate Wombat who put his plans in for anarmature months ago has got what he paid foir & just one problem after another. I almost feel guilty but looking at this made up is really impressive. The fabricator did an outstanding job for a great price.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Wombat - 03-04-2010
Mate,i'm so happy that you've got it and that it's been done properly for you up there.Yeah,i've had and still have issues with the fabricator that did mine but until it's perfect i won't accept it,nor should I.I've paid really good money for it and so far they just can't get it right.
Anyway,least yours is good so thats something my friend.Congrats,you now have a backbone for your Battlestar!
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - MonsieurTox - 03-05-2010
Awesome Jase , I'm jealous !
Your armature looks to be incredible, he did a nice job indeed !
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - 427 Cobra - 03-05-2010
What problems are you having,Phil? I mean,what is it that the guy who's doing it having trouble with?
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 03-05-2010
(03-05-2010, 10:02 AM)MonsieurTox Wrote: Awesome Jase , I'm jealous !
Your armature looks to be incredible, he did a nice job indeed !
oh man you think your jelous
You are the king my friend. I just hope I can build this bad boy. Im lucky to have some good help. I was hopeing to make my job a little easier with some parts sets from 'Custom Replicas'. Unfortunately it seems I won't be getting anything from them after all.
Just means doing it all the old fashion way
.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Wombat - 03-05-2010
(03-05-2010, 10:20 AM)427 Cobra Wrote: What problems are you having,Phil? I mean,what is it that the guy who's doing it having trouble with?
It's like saying,how long is a piece of string with all the dramas i've had mate.It's been one thing after another with it.OK,i mentioned i don't know how many times it had to be spot on to the plan.Well,these guy's obviously don't know what spot on is.For starters,it was mentioned it needed to be made from a true 2"OD pipe,so what do they do?They make it from the metric equivelent which is 51mm over here.So OK,they linish the whole thing to reduce the diameter,the problem there is it was then all over the place depending how much it was linished in what area.Also the two side mount pipe were both a 1/4" short of the plan also.So they cut em off and reweld two new ones the correct length.But then one wasn't level that they did.So it was a spit sesh and they then say the only true 2"OD pipe they can get down here will have to be stainless and i say fine it should have been done using that to start with as they'd been told about the true 2"OD being needed right from the start.So stainless it is,but it's still out and now there are other issues with it.There is heat distortion from the welding in quite a few places and they welded one of the outrigger arms at not at the correct height.They also changed the side mount pipe design so it was one length to make sure it would be straight but again,when they welded it it's become distorted a little so it's not even level again.
They have it again and say they will fix it all but i'm pretty much over it with em.These things aren't cheap to have made down here mind you,so i'll be damned if i'm gonna accept something sub standard and not spot on like the quote was for.Not to mention that it needs to be spot on or i'll have problems further down the track when building everything around it.
Next time i'm gonna make em run through every dimension and if it's not right then i'll be asking for my money back and going elsewhere for another try at getting someone to make it.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 03-05-2010
He also put this job request in nearly 6 months ago... Well i know Phil will be happy I have finally started glueing my acrylics together. I have the box all section done & will have the side sections done over the weekend. I used some scrap wood as loose jigs to square everything up & make sure everything was as tight as possible. the #16Weldon works a treat. Im happy everything is straight & even slid it with some effort I might add over the armature just to make sure we're all good
Yes I was watching battlestar Galactica as I put her together. I think you can see Atlantia going up in one of the photo
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Wombat - 03-05-2010
Fuckin aye Mate!!
Now thats a great sight right there!
I'm very happy to see you start to put this together at last,and it looks bloody fantastic on your armature there also.I'm very happy to hear you are gonna get the sides done over the weekend,then you'll be in my predicament in trying to work out the sloped front section.I just can't get my head around it all at present.I really think we need to use some key parts to get the dimensions of some of the panels.Things like the Roco Plow's,Centurion deck and even the F-16 fuselage will be a help in these areas along with the 257 Roco i think it is that sits on one of the panels also.
Anyway,again it's great to see some awesome progress there with it once again bud!!
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - 427 Cobra - 03-06-2010
You guys will want to wetsand your acrylic before you paint it. This will help the paint and the glue to stick to it.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 03-06-2010
Thanks Cris. Phil I have nearly all of these done. The F16 is going in rubber this afternoon. You will be getting mail next week with plenty to keep you occupied while I get these other parts sorted. I got a heater to warm up the workshop. the rain just is not going to ease up. I might have to build a studio scale Arc if it continues like this. I'll put 2 of everything in it. Two Galacticas, 2 Xwings, 2 Ywings, 2 Vipers etc etc.... I hope I don't have too much drama with the side panels. We definately have to get the 'Hips' & 'Waist' sorted. She was definately a virgin going onto that pipe....
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Richard_2001 - 03-06-2010
Jason,
Looking great there mate nice work! I like the jig.
The waist is one of the hardest areas to work with as it is probably the worst spot on the ship for symmetry! You are going to have to do a lot of tweaking on it to get all the parts to fit! I spent almost a year working it out on the 3d model. I would suggest building it in 3d a few times. If you do not have a cad program, download Sketch-Up. It has a free version that works great.
Richard
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 03-06-2010
Don't suppose you could give us a few of your measurements to play with Richard?
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - Richard_2001 - 03-06-2010
Jason,
I am under a NDA with Charles (anyone that bought his plans is) I will ask him about it and get back to you. He has been pretty good about most things so it is not hopeless.
Richard
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - 427 Cobra - 03-06-2010
Use 600 grit - this is what we always used in the shop back in the day and it still is. That aramture looks great,Jase. I'm working on a couple of builds for two customers,and a couple for coffee addict. I have plenty to keep me busy,but I want to finish the first consignment that I started for a friend on another forum. I need resin and the money for it first. That might have to wait until all the other projects are finished. Once that's all out of the way - I can get on the X again. I got some more styrene for it,so I'm psyched! I can't wait to see this Galactica with all the perspex over the armature.
RE: Jases Battlestar Galactica - JAWS - 03-06-2010
(03-06-2010, 09:51 AM)Richard_2001 Wrote: Jason,
I am under a NDA with Charles (anyone that bought his plans is) I will ask him about it and get back to you. He has been pretty good about most things so it is not hopeless.
Richard
I forgot youve used Charles's plans. I am bound by the same agreement. I was just going to cross refernece as you said you had done some tweeking here & there. All good. Im sure I can get something pretty close with all the reference we have