TOS Galactica (Studio-Scale) -- Engine Mystery Parts

[star-art]

These have never been (publicly) identified. There are lots of theories, but who knows if the exact original parts will ever be found.

My good friend Phil ("Wombat") commissioned me to recreate the original parts as closely as possible.

Starting with my 3D recreation of the Galactica studio miniature's engine section, I positioned the outlines of the parts to match the photos. I then built them in 3D.

When finished, the parts were exported to STL format and printed. They are now being molded so that castings can be made available.

Now that we've gone to all this trouble (and expense) we're wondering how long it will take for someone to reply and say something like, "Hey, I know what those are!" LOL

It's sort of like the old saying that the perfect reference for your project always becomes available right after you completely finish the model.

For those who are curious about the printing process, the four main parts came out so perfect they could have gone straight into rubber. (The photos show the "raw" parts as I received them.) I primed them with Tamiya fine white primer anyway just to be sure. I'll post pics of the primed parts shortly.

The tube parts were printed with a different process to save money (since they had no surface detail). Even though in the pics they appear to have a texture, they are actually very smooth. After priming, I noticed what appeared to be fine "cracks" near the edges (where the curvature is steepest). This is simply the result of the layering process. A little touch-up putty and another coat of primer and they will be ready for rubber.

[Mr. Wabac]

(03-06-2014, 07:05 PM)star-art Wrote: Now that we've gone to all this trouble (and expense) we're wondering how long it will take for someone to reply and say something like, "Hey, I know what those are!" LOL

I have spent the past couple of weeks revisiting this parts - came up with some more crazy theories but nothing has panned out.
Yes, someone will some day figure it out, but who knows when that might be.

The parts look great !

[star-art]

Thanks! When the molds are done and we make castings, contact Phil to get a set.

[JAWS]

HEY I Found the parts!!!!


Just kidding......

Nice work Charles.
Thanks Phil for funding the project.

[star-art]

Ya bastard!! LOL

[LastBattlestar]

Nice work Charles, they look great. Still hard to believe that those parts haven't been found. They must be from some weird old Russian rocket kit or something.

I'd like a set but not sure if they'd fit my model correctly. Maybe when Phil gets his castings we can lay them down on mine and see? Then again, I could do something unusual and do some modifications.

Mike

[darkimmitator]

(03-07-2014, 01:18 PM)LastBattlestar Wrote: Nice work Charles, they look great. Still hard to believe that those parts haven't been found. They must be from some weird old Russian rocket kit or something.

I'd like a set but not sure if they'd fit my model correctly. Maybe when Phil gets his castings we can lay them down on mine and see? Then again, I could do something unusual and do some modifications.

Mike

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LastBattlestar]

You know me....

Looks like you may be tearing off those parts I made for you yet, Ken. I never got all the smaller diameter pipes quite right either, didn't realise that they flared out toward the bottom either. It's getting on towards the middle of the year and colder weather when I get into the massive Galactica rework zone again!

Mike

[darkimmitator]

I too have been known to do total rework on the beast . I have a second ss battlestar stored in the ceiing of my basement .lol
What's another rework ! Spring is hopefully on the way here . It is another pretty key prominate piece for the build , and may swap it out .
We'll see .
Awesome lookin pieces though , well done Charles .

[JAWS]

Everyone rip their old parts off & put these on!
Lucky I never glued anything down on mine yet.

[star-art]

Jason, you sent me an e-mail asking a question about a stand. Did you get my reply?

[JAWS]

(03-15-2014, 07:40 AM)star-art Wrote: Jason, you sent me an e-mail asking a question about a stand. Did you get my reply?

Charles I did.
Sorry haven't replied yet.
just got to get those dims you require.

[star-art]

No worries. . .

[JAWS]

Ok I'm hijacking this thread in light of recent predicaments. The fact that these parts have actually been found now results in a very generous & productive member of the community will be at a significant financial loss by trying to get the most accurate replica parts made for the G builders to supplement on their builds.
I have to make it very clear that was not a profit engineeting Move & solely done to get parts made to be as accurate as could get without the actual parts.

Moving along I in an effort to support a generous member will be moulding & casting these parts when receive them free of any charge to Phil.
I am hoping the other G builders will support me by buying the few sets that will be made to cover Phils outlay on the 3d printing.
I will also be buying a set & using them on my build.

I am personally not going on the hunt for the kit anymore.
The fact I had already spent hundreds if not thousands in an effort for these parts & my anal addictive to accurate parts will use the parts had had developed & made.

I really hope we can help him out & I know he's s going to be pissed at me for this post but he will get over it after I get an earbashing.

[LastBattlestar]

No worries guys, I'll get a set. I might have to modify them to suit, but won't know until I test fit them anyway. Since when have I worried about super accuracy anyway?

Mike

[Wombat]

I think getting a proper kit and molding it is the best option and right now the only option other than everyone buy a kit if theres that many to be found. It's what i'd want now that the parts have been ID'd. The printed parts will be close to a match but you can't go past castings off an original part when it's one like these. Mikes idea of you guys getting together to help share the cost isn't a bad idea. Perhaps Jase can do the molding and casting if ya's ask nicely....

[LastBattlestar]

No way mate, you've been so generous to everyone here that we'll help out. I'm sure Charles's parts are close enough.

Mike

[Satazius]

I'll take a set of Phil's parts for sure.

[star-art]

I'd like to make it clear, just for anyone who's wondering, that the cost of producing the masters for these replica parts was 100% printing and shipping. I did not charge Phil 1 dime for making these parts in 3D. I was more than happy to do that in exchange for getting castings. I feel terrible that the original parts were found only *after* spending all this money (not to mention effort) trying to recreate them.

Keep in mind a couple of things. First, the replica parts include the OUTBOARD TUBES and these are NOT part of the LTV Scout kit. The tubes were built from scratch on the original and they are not just a simple, straight cut. If you want your model to look accurate, you will need the cast tubes from Phil.

Second, for those who think the original parts can be cast, I'm not so sure. They are vacuum formed, BRITTLE, extremely thin, and won't do well at all in resin. Even if you can get the special ($$) stuff needed to cast such very thin parts, they are likely to come out warped and deformed.

Bottom line, the replica parts look authentic and they are the correct size and overall shape (albeit a mm or two longer than the originals). Most importantly, they are engineered to be molded and cast in resin. They are quite a bit thicker than the original parts so they will be stable (not to worry, the exposed edges are thinned down so they look the part).

If you prefer to hunt down the original parts, that is certainly understandable. Please just keep in mind these parts have to be MODIFIED quite a bit if you want to match what the builders did on the original. The way they were cut up, you would have only ONE chance to get it perfect the first time. If you screw up you'd have to buy another kit.

To mold the original parts, IMO, they would first have to be perfectly modified to exactly match what was done on the original. Then, they would need to be thickened up quite a bit so they could be cast. It could certainly be done, but it would not be easy (again, IMHO).

So, if I can make a recommendation, it would be that anyone who wants to get these details spot-on needs to get a set of castings of the replica parts -- no matter which way you decide to go. If you want to use original parts, it will be extremely helpful if you have the replica pieces as reference to know exactly how and where to cut the vintage plastic parts.

[JAWS]

Thanks Charles for clarifying some of the points only you could.
Right so I'm going to do 10 sets for $60 a set. I believe that will reimburse Phil for his outlay.
If we don't sell 10 I will cover what's not sold as I'm the one who pushed on finding the kit.
There's a couple of guys promised sets that will also be covered.

Like Charles said & I support his statement. This parts will be very difficult to cut & could be a quick $100 bucks in the bin if you screw them up.
I'm personally just satisfied there's no major mystery kit to do my head in anymore.

[Wombat]

Thats nice of you guys but wont be necessary. I do need to have a couple of sets made as that was part of the deal as Charles mentioned. He created these for me at no cost as such for a couple of sets of castings in exchange for his time drawing them up. All the cost was in having them printed. It's just a shame that there ID wasn't shared with the builders before all the trouble to do so but who was to know they'd ever be found. Reading what was posted on the RPF it seems they were discovered last year by Sean but only now that he believes kits are apparently being hoarded he's come out and made the ID public. To me if that is the case then it would be by people in his circle as not one of us other builders have known what they were. Perhaps thats the case or perhaps it was more so just to stick it up some of us? The way i feel about these now is i really just want to move on from it all.

[Satazius]

Hey Phil, I understand its a bit of a weird situation, and must be more than a bit frustrating with the timing. But I for one would like a set of castings, so I hope you will still consider having them done. I think 10 sets would go quickly and be much appreciated by those who get them.

[Brisfx]

Put me down for a set of the printed/cast parts Jase. I didnt think it would cause all this negative commotion when I posted those images on Facebook yesterday, was just trying to share with everyone. This hoarding of information has been going on since the 90's and I had hoped that with all the sharing these days we were all past that. I mean seriously, how many actual studio builds are there out there world wide? I am sure not enough to make any parts that scarce among the Galactica builders community. I can only assume non builders may try to buy parts and make a profit. As a side note, after just one day, with some investigative work and emailing, looks like I have found a set of the plastic parts from a guy overseas so i will keep people posted and take photos when they arrive.

[JAWS]

Phil not everyone wants to buy the kit that will cost them over $100. Then the chance of cutting them wrong, as we do... A set of these for $60 that includes the tubes is a damn fair price & is $40 cheaper than we originally had planned to offer these to cover all the costs of getting them cast. Ten sets will go quickly & wouldn't be surprised if you don't get asked for a few more. Ten sets plus what you promised. No problem.

Charles have you posted them to Phil yet?
If not could you please do that as soon as possible so we can wrap this up & move on.

[Mr. Wabac]

Well I guess this had to happen - at some point someone was going to figure it out.
It is somewhat disheartening that someone couldn't have simply said "don't get them printed" before the expense was incurred.
Perhaps we can chalk it up to another side agreement of some kind.

Regarding the original - my guess is that the parts are more durable than you would expect.
Since it is a flying rocket kit the parts are very likely blow molded from a polyethylene type plastic - thicker than vacuform and not as brittle as styrene.
After all, they need to handle the punishment of a return to earth !

I also think that, if they are indeed blow molded they are a single piece.
Totally agree with Jason, this would make for some somewhat tricky cutting - especially with a somewhat slippery plastic.
You won't know for certain until you had cut them out if they match the "G" or not.
If you cut off too much you can't go back.

Polyethylene might not glue that well either, although the originals seem to be staying quite nicely in one piece.

[LastBattlestar]

I couldn't agree more Mr. W. Charles made it very public that he was creating those parts for the benefit of the building community as a whole, shown at the RPF, RI and who knows where else. Not one of this supposed other group even had the decency to send a PM or email with the kit ID to help out fellow long term builders. It's not as if we are building invisible projects, most of us share everything we can, Phil in particular who has spent the big bucks. The amount of info some people must be gaining from his contributions must be enormous, but apparently not enough for a simple helpful email?

Sorry for the rant, but I was really disappointed yesterday. Not your problem Brad, you were doing the right thing!

Looking forward to the castings. I couldn't be bothered cutting up those old vintage tubes anyway.

Mike

[star-art]

Brad, what you posted did not create any issues as far as I know. What some might not realize is there was already an established market for collectors who go after vintage Estes rockets. So, the demand was already high and the supply is of course decreasing as time goes on. This particular kit seems to have been quite popular already. Adding studio-scale guys into the mix just increases the demand and therefore the price.

I certainly understand why someone finding this kit would not mention it in public. It was already pretty rare and there is competition to get them. Looking at eBay history, even before it was made public, the price spiked suddenly and almost tripled in just about a month. It could go even higher now.

Bill, the original parts are indeed styrene and they are brittle. I had hoped we might be able to mold the ones on the G herself simply as an archival measure. In the event one was lost or damaged, we had no way to replace them because they were unknown all these years. But, we were advised that they might not survive molding.

Of course, not all vintage parts would necessarily be this fragile. Just a warning though to anyone who cares to try.

[JAWS]

(05-23-2014, 10:19 AM)Mr. Wabac Wrote: Well I guess this had to happen - at some point someone was going to figure it out.
It is somewhat disheartening that someone couldn't have simply said "don't get them printed" before the expense was incurred.
Perhaps we can chalk it up to another side agreement of some kind.

Regarding the original - my guess is that the parts are more durable than you would expect.
Since it is a flying rocket kit the parts are very likely blow molded from a polyethylene type plastic - thicker than vacuform and not as brittle as styrene.
After all, they need to handle the punishment of a return to earth !

I also think that, if they are indeed blow molded they are a single piece.
Totally agree with Jason, this would make for some somewhat tricky cutting - especially with a somewhat slippery plastic.
You won't know for certain until you had cut them out if they match the "G" or not.
If you cut off too much you can't go back.

Polyethylene might not glue that well either, although the originals seem to be staying quite nicely in one piece.

Having said all that, I would be quite happy with a cast resin set versus buying the Estes product (BTW - are we talking AUS$ or US$).
Put me down for a set.

Yep Au $

[JAWS]

(05-23-2014, 11:46 AM)LastBattlestar Wrote: I couldn't agree more Mr. W. Charles made it very public that he was creating those parts for the benefit of the building community as a whole, shown at the RPF, RI and who knows where else. Not one of this supposed other group even had the decency to send a PM or email with the kit ID to help out fellow long term builders. It's not as if we are building invisible projects, most of us share everything we can, Phil in particular who has spent the big bucks. The amount of info some people must be gaining from his contributions must be enormous, but apparently not enough for a simple helpful email?

Sorry for the rant, but I was really disappointed yesterday. Not your problem Brad, you were doing the right thing!

Looking forward to the castings. I couldn't be bothered cutting up those old vintage tubes anyway.

Mike

Another case of Crop Circles....
Lol!!!!

[LastBattlestar]

They appear out of nowhere!

Mike

[star-art]

(05-23-2014, 08:41 AM)JAWS Wrote: Charles have you posted them to Phil yet?
If not could you please do that as soon as possible so we can wrap this up & move on.

I'm packing them as we speak. It's been a crazy week here and we have a holiday weekend starting tomorrow. So, it might be next week before they go out, but I'll see what I can do.

[JAWS]

(05-23-2014, 03:52 PM)star-art Wrote:

(05-23-2014, 08:41 AM)JAWS Wrote: Charles have you posted them to Phil yet?
If not could you please do that as soon as possible so we can wrap this up & move on.

I'm packing them as we speak. It's been a crazy week here and we have a holiday weekend starting tomorrow. So, it might be next week before they go out, but I'll see what I can do.

Thanks Charles.
Will be good for Phil to get this over with & move on.
I know he wants to finish that section on his build as well.

[Wombat]

This thread sure has gained some momentum. It's good to hear there is still intrest in the 3d part's even though we now all know what the donor actually is. I'm sorry but i don't plan on having Jase make any more sets than what is owed from part of the deal. You guys will be happier if you get the rocket or get castings taken from one. The way i see it it's no different to what was them mystery coffin part's. Some really close parts were created but once casting became available of the actual found part's it really wasn't hard to choose which ones to go for. How many of us have those created parts sitting around that we will never use? These parts will be good but for us builders we all want the correct part's where we can have em and thats really how it should be. We joke around that as soon as you make something like those part's thats when someone will pop up with there ID and really thats just how it is. My only beef with it all is the reasoning of the person to name them now publicly and not back when it was brought up a few months ago these were being done. It is good to know there is a watch dog out there looking out for all of us builders though...

Anyway, move along, nothin to see here.....

[LastBattlestar]

I'm owed a set as part of the deal.

Mike

[darkimmitator]

um , hell yeah , I am in for a set.

[Mr. Wabac]

Phil:

I think there is interest in the castings versus waiting for the possibility of getting castings from the original.
The alternative of buying the rocket and cutting it up is not very appealing.

Charles:

Thanks for the information on the original.
I'm really surprised it would be made of styrene - doesn't sound very durable for model rocketry but maybe it is a weight issue.

[dbhs]

Charles, you should start modeling some other unidentified parts if that's what it takes to get them to pop up. There's a few I'm looking for....

[star-art]

He he

Well, I hope to get my own 3D printer in the not-too-distant future. If that happens, I won't care anymore about finding mystery parts. I'll just make up some good substitutes and then print them.

[padawan-builder]

Hey Guys,
Sorry to jump in here late. A lot going on these days. Phil, I hope you change your mind. I would love to get a set of the 3D printed ones and doubt I will every be able to get a hold of the original kit.

Bummer, that folks knew about that and didn't say anything until after Charles put all the work into it. By the way, thanks for doing all that Charles. Your skills never cease to amaze me. Wish I was 1/4 as talented.

Anyway Phil, if you decide to offer the set for $60 outside that small group you mentioned earlier, please keep me in mind.

Trust everyone is doing well. Not much progress on my G, but hope to get back to it soon. So much real life stuff going on. I really appreciate all the guys on this board. I don't post as often as most of you, but when I do, you are a real source of help, info, and encouragement and that means a lot.

Keep it going and lets get some more G's finished. Come on Mike. Do you really want to let me finish before you.

Mel

[JAWS]

Good to hear from you Mel.
I'm sure there will be set for you.

[Brisfx]

These just arrived today

   

[shadowknight]

Is there anything going on with casts of the 3d printed parts?

[JAWS]

Still awaiting for parts delivery.

[star-art]

That's my fault and I apologize. I got a bit swamped with projects and have not shipped them yet.

[LastBattlestar]

Looking forward to tear down number 4 of the engine slope area. Hopefully the parts will fit...eek! They might be a little short, but I'll improvise adapt and overcome as usual.

Mike

[Brisfx]

They are surprisingly small, will take a pic tonite of them in my hand

[LastBattlestar]

What sort of plastic Brad? I'd imagine something soft like an ice cream container?

Mike

[star-art]

The cast parts are a bit longer than the originals, Mike. Could be just the ticket!

[LastBattlestar]

Good to hear, wasn't looking forward to cutting and shutting a tapered tube.

Mike

[Wombat]

But cutting and shutting is your forte..LOL